Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2005 18:27:01 GMT
I'm not disputing the fact that we've seen all seven Enterprises on screen. I AM disputing that they were all flagships. The only two mention onscreen were D and E. And the original constitution class Enterprise...she was a flagship too.
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jared
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Post by jared on Nov 25, 2005 18:31:10 GMT
I miscounted one under by my reckoning since Enterprise Enterprise wasn't a Federation ship therefore the Federation practice didn't apply.
Defiant was the prototype, but wasn't a flagship by any means, so doesn't count in the 'flagship isn't a prototype rule'. The use of the Defiant actually gives us good reason for why this practice would be used; it had to be refitted without the cloaking device after The Search and to begin with everyone was unsure of exactly what it could do anyway.
And I meant canonically, not s47ially.
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cptjeff
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Post by cptjeff on Nov 25, 2005 18:37:27 GMT
but the excelsior seved as the flagship in between the Enterprise-A nd -B, and it was the pathfinder vessel. So there's not really a reason that one couldn't be, it's just that it's not common to change the flagship, and very few ships get chosen. I don't see any reason why we can't make the first ship of the class the flagship- besides- it's impossible to know the full capablilities of a vessel until it's been in service for several years, so that point's rather moot.
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jared
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Post by jared on Nov 25, 2005 18:43:19 GMT
Where did it say the Excelsior was flagship? I've never heard that before you see.
Also, it's only a safety thing that means that prototypes aren't used for the flagship. You don't want to suddenly find the pride of your fleet breaking down in front of an entire Romulan war party. Also, since prototypes are tested with rather banal tasks for a while, it might be seen as demeaning for said ship to be performing a routine scan of a nebula just to check the sensors work. Defiant would have been tested like that for some time before DS9's field testing of it.
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ajohnson
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Post by ajohnson on Nov 25, 2005 20:55:47 GMT
I don't believe that is correct since, for one, it has never been mentioned on screen. For second, the Enterprises are the only ships in starfleet that have had both their names and registrations continued. It isn't because they are flagships, just because Gene Roddenberry wanted to create a strong connection between the original series and the next generation.
How do you know that?
I have still been given no canonical proof that prototypes haven't been flagships.
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jared
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Post by jared on Nov 25, 2005 21:01:08 GMT
Well since the classes are named after the prototypes (or the other way around), that means that the proof is there. Defiant was Defiant class. Excelsior was Excelsior class. Constitution was Constitution class.
Also, the non flagship ships have been given different registrations. There are by canon two Yamato's I believe, both were simply USS Yamato and had different registrations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2005 21:02:06 GMT
There are more Defiant's too...as well as Intrepid's.....
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jared
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Post by jared on Nov 25, 2005 21:03:56 GMT
One of Enterprise's predecessors was an Intrepid wasn't it?
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Matthew Reynolds
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Post by Matthew Reynolds on Nov 25, 2005 21:06:05 GMT
One of Enterprise's predecessors was an Intrepid wasn't it? No, the Intrepid's were built while the Sovs were being built. So the Enterprise-E became the flagship and not an Intrepid class ship.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2005 21:07:57 GMT
One of Enterprise's predecessors was an Intrepid wasn't it? USS Enterprise - Constitution USS Enterprise - Constitution refit USS Enterprise A - Constellation (wasn't it)? USS Enterprise B - Ambassador USS Enterprise C - Excelsior USS Enterprise D - Galaxy USS Enterprise E - Sovereign Unless you mean that a constitution class ship was called Intrepid..........yeah I think so...that all Vulcan ship.
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jared
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Post by jared on Nov 25, 2005 21:09:04 GMT
I meant Enterprise Enterprise.
Also, the 'don't use the prototype as a flagship' rule is just a commonsense practice, it's not mandatory. I believe it's also used today.
The point is though that it would just give us two ships, one of which would be wholly expendable and give us the option of choosing two names; one ship and one class.
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cptjeff
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Post by cptjeff on Nov 25, 2005 21:18:16 GMT
Yes, but then we would have to fully crew yet another ship, and we dont' have the people. if we retired a ship and transferred the crew, we could dot aht kind of thing, but we just don't have enough people crewing ships already. So if we add two more instead of one, then that's a problem.
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jared
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Post by jared on Nov 25, 2005 21:23:43 GMT
I meant an NPC ship. An NPS...
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cptjeff
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Post by cptjeff on Nov 25, 2005 21:29:31 GMT
but then who controls what mission it will be in one week? the next? It can't be in two places at once. And which ship would be the NPS and which the active vessel?
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jared
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Post by jared on Nov 25, 2005 21:31:58 GMT
I mean like the ones we have already in the spare fleet. The flagship would be active, the prototype would be NPS. Also, it can be in two places since when the missions actually take place isn't entirely clear. Some ships seem to move faster than others.
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ajohnson
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Post by ajohnson on Nov 25, 2005 21:53:46 GMT
Well since the classes are named after the prototypes (or the other way around), that means that the proof is there. Defiant was Defiant class. Excelsior was Excelsior class. Constitution was Constitution class. Also, the non flagship ships have been given different registrations. There are by canon two Yamato's I believe, both were simply USS Yamato and had different registrations. How is naming the ship after the class proof that prototypes are not flagships? Also, what you said about the Yamato implies that the federation only has a flagship when there is an Enterprise in service. That would put them without a flagship for at least the years 2344-2364, 2371-2379 and most likely in between the Ent-A and the Ent-B and the Ent-B and the Ent-C.
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jared
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Post by jared on Nov 25, 2005 22:01:08 GMT
Why would they be without a flagship at those points? Also, it's entirely possible they were without one. When one flagship is destroyed or decomissioned, if another one is not immediately available then you don't NEED to have one.
It's generally accepted that Enterprise is the flagship, especially due to the unique continuation of the registry from the first to last and the later confirmation that it was the flagship from D onwards. Why would only the Enterprise go to Enterprise-A and so on if it wasn't because it was the flagship?
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ajohnson
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Post by ajohnson on Nov 25, 2005 22:37:52 GMT
Because it wouldn't have been the same to viewers not to have the 1701 in there.
And, I don't think it's generally accepted that only the Enterprises were flagships, or that prototypes can't/weren't flagships.
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jared
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Post by jared on Nov 25, 2005 22:54:34 GMT
Name the flagships then and explain why they didn't just have the USS Enterprise again like there were multiple USS Intrepids. It makes more sense for the Enterprise to be the flagship than not.
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ajohnson
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Post by ajohnson on Nov 26, 2005 0:22:56 GMT
The only flagships that there has been on screen proof of are the Enterprise-D and the Enterprise-E.
As to why they used the 1701 registry again, it was for the viewers' purpose. It wouldn't be the same to Star Trek fans to have an Enterprise without the 1701.
And anyway, if all flagships re-use registries, how come the Enterprise is the only ship to have done so?
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trekkie3
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Post by trekkie3 on Nov 26, 2005 3:25:09 GMT
Anyway section 47 is only one part of the whole starfleet fleet, it isn't the whole thing. Whether an Enterprise is the flagship of the hole fleet of not is not the issue. It is what is the flag ship of this smaller section of the fleet.
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anderson
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Post by anderson on Nov 26, 2005 4:10:46 GMT
How about the USS Excursion?
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ajohnson
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Post by ajohnson on Nov 26, 2005 17:24:47 GMT
The USS Excursion?
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cptjeff
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Post by cptjeff on Nov 26, 2005 17:53:23 GMT
Taken. by at least two sites.
Perhaps we could do two ships if we sent one of our older ships into mothballs and replaced it with a new one- the prototype, and then did the flagship.
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Paikea Apirana
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Post by Paikea Apirana on Nov 26, 2005 17:56:49 GMT
I don't think that we would send any ship to the reserve fleet, we would be destroying a crew and that is not what we want
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